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July 22, 2007

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Randy McCall

Very interesting, thanks Bryan. This is being passed on to the members of our various networks.

MichaelW
For example, one blogger is quite clear about seeing such ISP hosting practices as treason.

Are you stupid? Let me just take a guess at your reading-for-comprehension scores in grade school etc. They didn't reach the "average" range. If I'm wrong, then how is it possible that you missed this (well, really the entire post):

(1) They are not committing treason. As I laid out above, it is easy to assume that the ISP’s are doing so, but only if you look at it superficially. It’s highly unlikely that the ISP’s are even aware that these are jihadi websites, so the way you enlist their help is by raising their awareness. If you want the ISP’s to stop hosting the jihadis, then what you don’t do is accuse of them of treason. The ISP’s will be much more co-operative if you don’t.

Seriously. That's the worst reading of a blog post that I've seen in some time. I guess, in a way, you should feel proud. At least you accomplished something.

Arash

Very Interesting indeed ....

Bryan Alexander

Thanks, Arash and Randy.

MichaelW:
First, my apologies for misreading. I found your post in a flurry of others, read it in haste (focusing on the first bit), and linked too quickly. I've corrected the text in my blog post; please refresh the browser to check.

Second, in return, perhaps you can respond to the rest of my post? The very next paragraph after I link to you mentions nongovernmental responses to the MEMRI report. Your post ends with a reflection on US federal actions, and you return to that theme in the post's second comment. I would be interested, quite seriously, in learning what you think *other* actors might, or should, do. For example, I didn't mention this earlier, but tracking ISP hosting could be an open source intel effort.

peter naegele

This whole situation is a complete mess. There was a piece In May which found that MySpace is a hotbed for recruitment and glorification of jihad.

When the investigator reported her findings to the FBI, she was told that they were protected as "protected free speech". Their response confirms what MichaelW & McQ wrote in their blogs about the need for grass roots efforts.

In this case, I am not so sure that they will be effective, given MySpace's previous fight to not disclose sex predator profiles.

MichaelW

Bryan:

MichaelW: First, my apologies for misreading. I found your post in a flurry of others, read it in haste (focusing on the first bit), and linked too quickly. I've corrected the text in my blog post; please refresh the browser to check.

Noted and appreciated. I should apologize for being so derisive with my initial comment as well. I found your post late last night and went for the quick'n easy response instead of polite prodding. So, sorry for that.

Second, in return, perhaps you can respond to the rest of my post? The very next paragraph after I link to you mentions nongovernmental responses to the MEMRI report. Your post ends with a reflection on US federal actions, and you return to that theme in the post's second comment. I would be interested, quite seriously, in learning what you think *other* actors might, or should, do. For example, I didn't mention this earlier, but tracking ISP hosting could be an open source intel effort.

I really can't say what others "should" do, other than to raise a fuss with one's own ISP if it is hosting such websites. IMHO, it is best if we can somehow push these websites outside our jurisdictional borders where they can be fought on a military/intelligence basis rather than from a legal one where they would be given significant advantages. With respect to non-governmental actors, it seems to me that the only effective means to do that is to deny the jihadis a foothold. Threatening boycotts and the creation of a PR nightmare for the hosting ISP's would accomplish the task.

I'm not really too sure what sort of "smartmobbing" or "Army of Davids" techniques could be employed to deal with the sites themselves. If there is some open-source way to track the sites, as you suggest, it probably wouldn't hurt. However, my guess is that such activity would either yield much more information than is really useful, or information that is already generally known (e.g. that the jihadis are based in Pakistan, Indonesia, or Egypt). Nevertheless, there may be some benefit.

Overall, I think that the issue just needs a healthy dose of sunlight. The more people are aware that the jihadis are looking to set up propaganda shops here in the US, the harder it will be for that propaganda to flourish. By the same token, too much attention may be counter-productive. The worst case scenario that I see is the creation of a mob mentality, leading to unjustified and irresponsible attacks on any Islamic website people can find. What I don't want to see is an O'Reilly driven attack that is aimless and indiscriminate. Rather, I think MEMRI has the right idea of informing American ISP's of the problem, and perhaps going after any legally that knowingly host the jihadis.

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